story: Our Dad Percy

Ralph and Ernie Norman spoke with artist in residence lisa g.

Here is part of their conversation:

Thanks to Ralph who wrote down some thoughts about his Dad.

Thanks also to The City Archives, The Vancouver Public Library and the Percy Norman Pool for the archival photographs.

story: Sunshine Club

When me and my twin sister were in high school, Mom organized a Sunday afternoon film program for the disabled at Riley Park Community Centre. This was the early 80’s after the community centre’s expansion.

Dad was the projectionist, and got the films from the film library at the National Film Board. Mom ran the concession. Us kids would be the helpers.

Folks would enter from the double doors off Ontario and make a left into the first room. It was the room opposite the Senior Centre.

My mom thinks it was called the Sunshine Club.

This program ran for years until it just got too big for the centre.

My parents were always trying to help us kids understand the lives of other people. They wanted us to be more accepting of others and for us to be thankful for what we had.

They would always volunteer us to help out in the community.

Of course my sister said we didn’t volunteer we were volunTOLD!

Haha!

by Ingrid Steenhuisen

story: friendly neighbourhood

My Parents moved into the housing complex at 33rd and Main in 1957 and we moved to various units as the family grew.

Our house was the go to house for whatever you needed: a cup of sugar, babysitting, a shoulder to cry on or as a community resource.

My mom was just like that.

There was one row of houses in this complex called the Pensioners Row for folks who were 70 or older.

When I was about 8 and a half one pensioner in particular would come by and ask “Would you like me to take the kids for walk?” My mother was grateful for this break in her day as he would take us around Queen Elizabeth Park for an hour or more! Here would be this nice old guy with 4 or 5 kids tagging along!

I will never forget him.

Wilf Polkinghorn.

by Ingrid Steenhuisen

story: MONKEY BARS

Me and my twin sister were 13 years old in the early 1970’s and living at 36^th and Main at the time. Mom would let us take our younger siblings (there were 4, soon to be 5, and this gave our Mother a bit of a break/rest) to Riley Park. We would go to swim and swing … being sure to return for dinner. Our youngest brother loved the monkey bars and we learned quicklynever to be in a panic right away if we couldn’t find Fred, at least until you checked the monkey bars! Most often he could be found there!

Along the lane there was different apparatuses where all the kids and teens liked to play on back then: the swings, teeter-totters, the gymnastic trapeze bar and rings, the pool (was open 5 or 6 days a week, each summer) and the monkey bars…Everything (except the swings) was taken out - apparently due to liability issues - replaced by stuff mostly for toddlers. Within the past decade they put in the climbing rock . . . exactly in the same place - where the monkey bars used to be.

Fred was three or four years old when they were building the conservatory at Queen Elizabeth Park. A picture of it was in the Sun newspaper after the brick walls and the roof’s metal framework were completed. The glass panels weren’t installed yet, and it grabbed my Dad’s attention since the construction company was made up of 9 brothers from Holland, and that was my family heritage. Dad shared the picture with all of us, and of course Fred just wanted to climb it, seeing that - to him - it was just another set of monkey bars – GIANT ONES!

story: Forests of Riley Park

It is often good to get a little context in relation to the history of the area when gathering stories...in the library one day I came across this little historical anecdote:

In the early 1900's a fellow by the name of Hugh Gunn* was hired to clear Main Street all the way south to 33rd. The idea of course was to expand the community and provide roads. In those days, Hugh needed to cut down a lot of trees since it was dense forest...but what Hugh didn't know when he started the project was that between Main and Fraser was mostly swamp!

Apparently Hugh needed to fit the oxen with snowshoes to allow them to walk on the boggy areas! He certainly didn't want to lose his oxen team disappearing into the swamp!

Imagine that sight: a team of strong oxen wearing snowshoes!

The rest of the forest from 33rd south to 41st wasn't logged and cleared for housing until the 1950's.

Until that time folks continued to hunt for rabbits in there... if you can believe it!

*Hugh Gunn unfortunately blew himself up while building Hastings Street many years later.

story: babies on deck

Rose told me that when she brought her son to Percy Norman Pool when he was a baby he could play and sleep on the deck of the pool!

This was curious at first to me and I thought that this must be because she worked at the pool...so she had special privileges... but no, this was standard practice at the time! In the late 1970's, moms could come to the pool and swim and do aquafit and have their kids right there looking on - from the pool deck!

And then I found the picture below in the Percy Norman Archives!

What a great idea!

Except now the kids have to be in day care separate from the moms....

No judgement from me, things change - I know...

but, I can't help thinking what a good idea that is...and I always seem to love things from the 1970's.

by lisag

story: Conversation with Daphne

How do you tell a life story encompassing 93 years?

A difficult prospect, I must say.

Also, being the collector of the stories, I feel privileged to hear and learn more than I can possibly share...but I do my best.

This short video hopes to capture the vibrancy that is Daphne, a few of her memories, a sense of a neighbourhood from a time that seems simple yet hints at the challenges that everyone has...

I thank Daphne for taking the time and having the patience for me to ask a lot of questions!

I thank her son Greg who continues to collect the family history...I hope everyone has someone in their family to take this on!

story: Turner's Dairy

Check out 3333 Main street in 1950!

Alot of nuthin' there now, used to be a car sales showroom...

The red brick building on 17th just peeks out from behind the old dairy in the shot from 1950, but in 2010 it gets to show off!

story: community preparation

Here is a picture from the just before the war...perhaps 1939, when Daphne, my mother, was a nanny in the south of England. As the threat of an invasion was close they moved the family inland away from the coast. It was after this that my mother enlisted in the R.A.F. and was posted in a hospital in Newcastle. It must have been chaotic times indeed for a family that was used to living the quiet village life.

These experiences must have shaped Daphne's character and is evident in her dedication to the community of Little Mountain.

Thoughts from Daphne's son Greg.

story: Prophetic Photograph

The first time I entered Percy Norman Pool was on opening day in April 1960. I remember driving over Little Mountain with my parents and looking through the trees before seeing the pool. We were rushing a little to get there in time for the ceremonies. A program of aquatic events had been planned and I was in the first race...the women's 100 m Freestyle.

It turned out to be a significant step in my Olympic journey.

The previous year, when I was thirteen, my mother told me that my best chance to make the Pan American Games team was to finish among the first 4 in the 100 m Freestyle at the trials. This was because the Selection Committee would likely send the top 4 girls for the Freestyle Relay.

You should always do what your mother tells you. And I did!

However, for the 1960 Rome Olympics, my mother predicted they would only send a Medley Relay (a team of four, one swimmer for each stroke). If I hoped to be chosen, I would have to win the 100 m Freestyle.

Well, again, I did as I was told!

Margaret Iwasaki had been alternate for the 1956 Melbourne Olympics and was, by this time, the best in Canada for both Butterfly and Freestyle. I was not expected to win this exhibition race at the new pool. But I did! By 1/10th of a second!

And my family, including my sister Helen (1956 Olympics) knew that this boded well for me to make the 1960 Olympic Team.

An interesting note, I think, is that there were only 4 women swimmers representing Canada in Rome and only 10 women on the entire Canadian Olympic Team!

This photograph of the opening exhibition race (taken by Bill Cunningham of the Vancouver Province) was a foreshadowing of the 1960 Women's Olympic Swimming Team.

All 3 swimmers, coached by Howard Firby of the Dolphins, earned a spot on the team.

Myself, Mary Stewart for the 100 m Freestyle; Judy McHale for the 100 m Breaststroke and Margaret Iwasaki for the 100 m Butterfly.

The announcer standing behind us in the photo is Dick Jack who was named as the Swim Team Manager for the Rome Olympics.

By Mary Stewart McIlwaine

Mary taught school in Vancouver for 38 years. She and her husband, Robert, have a son, Edward, and a daughter, Marina.

On June 1st 2010 Mary posed for this portrait at Percy Norman Pool.

story: Daphne's kids

Daphne Holmes moved here from England in the 1940's and raised a family...

She was a longtime resident of Riley Park,

a true community player,

a mover and a shaker and

a generous spirit with a very forward thinking attitude toward children and their education.

Daphne with her great-grandchild Abigail Lim in her side garden in the summer of 2008.

One rainy morning I sat with her and her son Greg to learn more about her.

"It is important to get kids to like to come to school. It was Greg who couldn't stand the grade one teacher and I had an awful time with him! He would get to the end of the street and then that was it…

I would get a phone call, 'Is Greg sick?'

And I would say 'No, I sent him to school.'

And he would be hiding and I would have to go find him, but he just couldn't stand that teacher. So I said to the principal at the time, 'Can we change him over?'
And the principal said 'No, he'll have to get used to all these different teachers.'
So I called the school board and said 'He is only 5 years old, and it is an experience for him and he can't stand it! Every child is an individual and you never know what is going to happen, and this one just can't take it!'
I thought this is one time I've got to stand up for him and protect him."

The PTA at General Wolfe School. Daphne is sitting down second from the left.

Circa 1962 or 1964...

"And so I joined the PTA and told them that we have got to do something, so kids are not scared to come into school!

A lot of the kids couldn't care less but then you get these ones that are a little bit shy and people would call them slow, but they are not slow!
A lot of parents would say 'Oh well, they will get through'…but I think you have to stand behind these kids."
(Daphne got Greg successfully transferred from the class but then he got that same teacher again in grade 3!)

"I warned the principal that I would be watching out for him!"

"Because I had 3 boys I was very interested in what was happening in the schools, and I have always gone up different times to meet the new principals to see what was going on, you see, eventually I had my grandchildren going to the same school. It is still a very good school!" (General Wolfe Elementary.)

"I think all my kids' friends knew exactly where the cookie pot was. It was a good thing my husband was on shift work, because after school they all came swooping in! Some mothers were working but of course I wasn't, so I had babysitting at my house. I did eventually go to work, but not until after the boys had grown up."

This picture is from a camping trip in and around the time of cookie thievery, 1962.

Greg (top left), Carl (top right), Marc (bottom left) and Steven (bottom right).

Carl wasn't Daphne's son but a neighbour kid who hung around with them A LOT. Kind of an honourary member of the family.

Also notice Daphne's husband George chopping wood!

"I volunteered every Thursday afternoon, for many years and weighed all the new babies in the neighbourhood at the Health Clinic on Main street at 24th. In fact I might be right to say 27 years! They gave me a little tea and presented me with a little gift saying I had weighed the babies for 25 years... and then one of my neighbours got up and said 'She has been doing that for more than 25 years!'

I knew every kid and watched them grow up! What a happier life than that? And some of their parents I knew when they were kids! Everybody knew where I was on Thursday afternoons."

Here is the health centre June 3, 2010, still there after all these years...

"I met someone I had weighed just the other day at the Centennial Anniversary of General Wolfe School. I attended with my two sons but as we got out of the car into the beautiful blue sky day...there came this incredible storm! So Greg got me settled in the basement so he could go and help outside to bring in chairs and hold the tents down. Rocks were flying off the playground into their faces! I sat with one of the present day General Wolfe students -- because he also didn't want to go out into the storm! As we were chatting, I realized he was a little scared. I told him that one of his parents would soon come and he would be ok. When his mother showed up, I recognized her and then realized I had weighed this little guy I was talking to! He was much bigger of course, so I joked: 'I don't think I could lift you now!'"

"I always liked kids. I took a few years of training [in England] - how to look after kids and that...then, much later, I went back to night school here in Vancouver -- at Langara -- to get my Pre-School Education. I should have done this before my kids were born!

[Historically speaking this program wasn't offered back then!]

I learned an awful lot! I went for 3-4 years, and I was the oldest student. I was in my 50's, I was a grandmother! And I was with all these young people and I had never been to college in my life! But I was the top of the class, probably because I had so much experience being with children already."

Greg: "You got the job right across the street from our house, at Little Mountain Daycare!"

Daphne: "Yes that's right, and I would open up the daycare, then go back and help at lunchtime, and then go back and close. I did that 5 days a week. I was so happy to get so far and in my 50's! And pre-school in those days, was not so well looked after, but now they go to UBC to get their degree. It was a new thing back then. I worked at Little Mountain Daycare until it closed, probably about 20 years or so. I thoroughly enjoyed that."

Daphne and her Little Mountain Daycare kids in and around 1974.

"My husband wasn't too keen on his wife working, but I enjoyed it, and when he saw I was enjoying it, he quit yakking about it and if he got home before me he learned to put the supper on!"

Greg: "Which he never did before…"

Daphne: "And then I would come home from the daycare and supper would be ready for me! I mean, I would make it ready but he would cook it. He would look outside the front window for the last car to leave picking up kids and he would turn the oven on!"

Daphne's husband outside General Wolfe's birthplace in Westerham, Kent... England.

Greg: "It was handy for the daycare too, having my Mom live across the street, when parents couldn't make it to pick their kids up on time, she would just bring them home and then the parents would pick them up here at our house! Convenient for people…especially single moms."

Daphne: "Some kids would even come to my house at 7:30 in the morning... since the daycare didn't open until 8am! And you know, no one ever took advantage of this. Which I was very proud of. Also every year the city would come and check things out at my house to make sure it was all safe. I was licensed to have the kids there. I had a good relationship with the health department! The neighbours wouldn't complain either. The kids would of course play outside too!"

Greg: "My mom, my father and my aunt Pearl started the Seniors Group at Little Mountain Neighbourhood House as well."

Daphne: "It is still going on I think."

The Riley Park Seniors Group. A bunch of big kids! Daphne sits second from the right.

"I think getting my preschool certificate was one of my biggest achievements since I didn't have that much education, there was no such thing as education when I went to school. You went to school, you turned 14 and then you were out. And I was a woman, so there were only so many things you could do. You could be a teacher if you were smart, or a nurse, but that took years."

"The most amazing thing [in regards to living 93 years and seeing so many things change], was the change in children…in that they now ask questions. I don't think at my age we would have ever dared to have done it! I think they aren't closing kids down now, they are opening them up more. That is what I noticed and that is what I tried to do to bring kids out."

"I still get Christmas cards from some of the kids I looked after!"

transcription by lisag

"I feel honoured to meet Daphne."

story: 3900 block Main Street

All it takes is 46 seconds to see the changes since 1946!

story: Main and 25th - south west corner

1939
2010
*archival image courtesy of Vancouver Public Library

story: Fraser and 33rd dissolve

47 seconds to show the "progress" at the corner of Fraser and 33rd.

story: Main and 25th - south east corner

1946
2010
1946
2010

Archival images courtesy of Vancouver Public Library

story: Main and 15th: then and now

Times change and cities grow but a heritage building can withstand these changes if the city protects them and finds new uses.
Here is a good example.

1927 - Postal Station C

2010 - Heritage Hall

Camera and camera lenses also change, trees get planted and electrical wires installed -- all things that make recreation photographs challenging.
As well, the ability to move as far back as necessary to get the same shot! For the picture below my back was right against the building on the other side of the street!

by lisa g

story: end of an era

I chatted with Darwyn Hermann (Recreation Programmer for Mount Pleasant Community Centre) one day over the phone and he had some hilarious and thoughtful Riley Park memories.

Darwyn remembers being 5, 6 and 7 years old spending at minimum 3-4 days per week at the Percy Norman Pool. His Dad (Doug Hermann) was the pool's Assistant Manager and a tough guy water polo player (his words). Darwyn, the third youngest of 4 would play with his two brothers and one sister at the pool when his Dad worked. The pool was closed everyday for an hour or so which meant Darwyn and his siblings ran amok in the pool. They loved to dump out the entire box of kickboards into the pool and make a raft. It sounded like such a magic time.

When I went to visit him I recorded his memories, here is what he had to say:

"We used to run those hallways, the tunnels, and play tag in that building as kids, a lot of memories. We spent so much time there. We used to fight in the building with my siblings.

Going back to the mid 60's early 70's there were some really memorable swimming instructors...although it was a very different method of teaching. One guy, Jack Lugrin, he was old back then and he walked with a limp…Jack would have this red pole and would say 'Jump to the red pole!' And the first couple of times he would pull you across while you kicked, and then he would pull the pole away and you would be fighting to get the pole! He would make you go a farther and farther distance until he wouldn't give you the pole for the whole length. So that is a very old school method of teaching, where now it is more a progression based system. This was the method back then, they didn't know any better. There were definitely some unique instructors over the years."


"There used to be days during public swimming where they lined up 200 hundred people deep and right out to Main Street. So, pool staff would let the maximum capacity in and an hour and a half later they all had to get out and the next bunch of people would be let in! That used to be regular on the weekends up until the 70's….because there wasn't so many pools around. Templeton, Britannia, and Lord Bing didn't come in until 1976. Prior to that there were less pools. Kensington didn't come until the early 80's. We only had Kerrisdale which was an outdoor pool and then you had Kilarney. Even the Aquatic Centre didn't come in until the 70's."

public swim at the Percy Norman Pool circa 1963

"There were days I remember walking from school to the pool. Coming down by the Kentucky Fried Chicken, Main and 31st, and coming in the back of the park by the back of the ice rink parking lot. One gang was in Riley Park, another in the parking lot with bats and chains, sniffing glue! I was about 7 years old when I saw this --probably early 70's. So very rough community growing up. It was a rough neighbourhood with the projects down the street.

We used to run the hallways and I can remember me and my brother were chasing each other around and he goes to take a drink from the fountain and I bonked him on the back of the head and knocked all his front teeth out! That was my little brother.

As kids not only were we in swim club, we also took judo. So 5 or 6 days a week we were in sports. Judo and swimming, Judo and swimming…so we used to fight with each other all the time whether we were in Judo or not. My little brother survived it though…there were 3 boys and one girl.

My sister worked at Percy Norman while she was in university as a cashier and lifeguard. My older brother lifeguarded at the beaches and the outdoor pools. When he was 19 years old he became a police officer. So, you see the influence. At one point, four of us worked for the City of Vancouver. My brother was the police officer, me and my Dad were working, my sister was working...so when the T4 slips came that said 'D Hermann' we had to look at the social insurance number…all our names start with D (Debbie, David, Darwyn, little brother Dillon and my Dad, Doug!) Five D's in our family!

I can remember one time a cheque came in the mail for 'D Hermann' and we didn't know whose it was so I cashed it. It was some retro for some contract settlement or something , but it was my older brother's …

The Vancouver Park Board system progressed very rapidly over a 30 year term. We went from 1 pool to 7 pools and we built them very quickly. It is interesting because how people view aquatics has changed. It used to be 25 meter box pool and dive board tank…now they build them with zero depth entry so they are more wheelchair accessible. Yet, Percy Norman always had those special needs groups in there but really had very difficult accessibility issues. They always struggled with accessibility, but still handled it….we had a hand crank lift. One of the people, Bonnie Friesen, a special needs aquatics specialist in Vancouver, has been really progressive teaching people how to work with special needs groups. Percy was always known for that."

photo courtesy of Percy Norman Pool, circa 1963

"In the new facility the bottom of the pool will raise up to the surface level, so you will be able to get people into the pool and then lower it again. It will also be zero depth entry into the leisure area, so there will be a lot more accessibility in this pool. We learned a lot from Percy Norman Pool.


There were some big events held at that pool. Nowadays, it is too small and you wouldn't be able to dive at that pool. I remember some guys that used to work there and they would double bounce on the high diving board and literally almost landed on the deck in between the dive tank and the lap pool!


The new pool facility will be different from what we already have in Vancouver, not necessarily competitive, our goal was to make it accessible to everybody and have it more leisure based. A far cry from the old Percy Norman!


It is kind of the end of an era."


interview by lisa g

story: lifesaver

story: MY Neighbourhood

click on the images to see Linda's 2007 scrapbook up-close!